Comments on: Why the distribution of wealth has more to do with power than productivity https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:36:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3.4 By: Yuan Awen https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1528 Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:36:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1528 I am touched by the insightfulness of this article. How wealth creation is distributed between capital, land and labour? It is a fact that given by the current condition of the nation, a huge amount of citizens still suffer from poverty. Still, it is sad that it is almost impossible to ask for a fair income distribution because that’s how most business stay competitive. In my opinion, the general public has a stronger voice (and better chance of winning) in requesting corporate (or institutional) social responsibility. It is known among businesses that the pursuit of CSR can effectively improve the public image of an organization and thus attract investors and draw in profit. Meanwhile, those who advocate CSR can benefit from social welfare.

Awen Yuan, Milgard School of Business

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By: lisalousheppard https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1516 Sat, 05 Jan 2019 13:51:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1516 darkcitydarkcity but

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By: waylaid https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1508 Fri, 30 Nov 2018 12:45:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1508 Having lived in two other countries, I’ve never understood the British obsession with owning houses. I mean, sure, I’d love to own a house (that’ll never happen) but it isn’t a big deal if I don’t. I also don’t have to deal with fixing the plumbing, the mortgage, that leak in the roof…. In Eastern Canada, where I lived for many years, most people rent. If they have the money, when they’re ready to have a family they buy somewhere. If they don’t, eh. Of course, tenant’s rights are much stronger there than in the UK.

Being a renter in the UK is incredibly insecure. I lived in a property I like to call The Mold Palace. It was everywhere: walls, ceiling, carpet, bed, sofa… I mentioned it to the landlady a few times, but was scared to push it any further in case she kicked us out. I suffered with severe allergies for 2 years (didn’t realise it as it came on slowly), and ended up with asthma which hasn’t gone away.

Being a lodger is worse. My landlord/housemate kicked me out a couple of years ago because he wanted to move his gf in. 4.5 years living together, 3 weeks notice. I ended up homeless.

Now I live in a housing cooperative (~85 people). We each own a share in the co-op, so we’re both landlords and tenants, and most of us contribute to the co-op in some way. (I put together and type up agendas and minutes for general meetings. It’s really good to feel useful. Anyway.) Barring some kind of severe behavioural nono, I can stay here for the rest of my life. I may just do that. Of course, I’m sharing a house with 5 other people in my 40’s, but I like having people around. I’m disabled, can’t work, don’t get out much, and was very, very isolated before I moved here. 🙂 It’s also incredibly cheap: half the price of any other place I could live here!

While I know that co-operative living isn’t for everyone, I think that co-operatives would be a good thing to invest in. We preferentially take in people who are homeless, in danger of homelessness, on benefits, etc. Of course, one could have a co-op that involved everyone having their own flat, so they could live “normally” if they wanted, but with a central house for big events, things like workbenches, storage, etc. It could still be co-operative in many ways.

I should go to bed. Sorry if I’m babbling.

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By: Curse of Nephros https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1484 Tue, 09 Oct 2018 08:04:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1484 A big part of the UK’s ‘productivity puzzle’ is no puzzle whatsoever. The substantial net inflow of immigrants into low skilled jobs has allowed chunks of the economy to substitute low wage labour for productivity raising capital. The implications of this are probably not ones that a site like OpenDemocracy would care to dwell on; especially what the trade offs would be for shifting towards a higher skilled, higher productivity, higher wage model.

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By: Autumn Cote https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1482 Mon, 08 Oct 2018 13:48:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1482 I think Disqus blocked my effort to thank you and send you a link. Articles are sorted by recent recommendations and your article is currently in the #10 spot. However, between now and when you read this message, it may move around a bit. If you wish to engage your commenters (presently you have 2 comments ), use the following access information:

email: jamin at writerbeat com
password: writerbeat

The login is in the upper right hand corner.

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By: Ben Jamin' https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1478 Sun, 07 Oct 2018 22:14:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1478 Sure.

Leave a reply here with a link to your site.

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By: Alasdair Macdonald https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1475 Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:34:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1475 Armchair Socialist,

Thank you for the kind words!

I was trying to deal with one specific point you had raised.

In my answer, I touched on land reform and I think that if that were to be dealt with in a serious way, then it could have a significant effect on the balance of the economy.

The land-owners (which are as much multi-national, offshore corporations as the likes of Mrs Samantha Cameron’s father-in-law, Lord Astor, the Duke of Westminster, the Duke of Buccleuch, etc.) have been very successful in getting land reform off the political agenda, virtually since the second World War. Things like the land register are now significantly out of date. The landowners, through their patronage of Westminster and Whitehall have managed to keep this off the agenda and have sneaked through legislation to bolster their powers.

There are few politicians who know much about the labyrinthine complexities of land law. One of those who does is the Green Member of the Scottish Parliament Mr Andy Wightman, who has written extensively on this (“The Poor had no Lawyers”. etc) He is currently the subject of litigation by agents of the Scottish Landowners, essentially in an attempt to bankrupt him and thus have him disqualified from Parliament.

If brownfield sites, which are currently exempted from taxation were subject to local taxation, which increased exponentially with the length of time the land was undeveloped, they would quickly be brought back into the local economy. The increased supply would reduce land prices. Small parcels would become more affordable for ‘ordinary’ people, who would then be able feasibly to consider self-buiid or co-operative build. This would probably result in better quality housing since the land price was swallowing far less of the buyer’s money and more could be spent on the actual design, bricks and mortar. (Glasgow City Council’s City Building and the social enterprise, the WISE Group have developed housing designs which are to the highest energy and eco efficiency standards.) Such building would stimulate local economies.

Finally you raise the issue of the wider economy. The economy of almost all of the United Kingdom is being strangled by the rapaciousness of the financial market in the City of London. It is diverting money which, in years past, was used in vibrant local economy centres like Glasgow, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, etc. It is sucking in huge amounts of public money. The metropolitan media scornfully brand people in the North East of England, Wales, the West Midlands etc ‘subsidy junkies’ whereas the real subsidy junkies are in and around the City. Per capita public expenditure for London is far in excess of the more economically weak areas. There is a book called ‘The Upas Tree’ by Stanley Checkland, written nearly 50 years ago which describes the effect far more accurately than I can.

One of the main reasons why I support independence for Scotland is to take some degree of control of our Scottish economy, because Westminster’s is almost wholly controlled by the City. Rhetoric about the Northern Powerhouse, is just that – rhetoric. Manchester was, indeed, once a global economic powerhouse, but, like others it was destroyed by the hyenas of London, abetted, sadly, by a centralising Labour Party, many of whose leading figures were seduced (sometimes literally sexually) by the wealthy and powerful. Look at the ridiculous figure Ramsay Macdonald became.

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By: armchair_socialist https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1474 Sat, 06 Oct 2018 23:54:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1474 Alasdair, thanks for a beautifully thorough and erudite response. You have done an excellent job of clarifying the political economy of the housing shortage, the policy decisions, perverse regulations, power imbalances and market forces that have brought it about. Ultimately, however, this does no more than furnish a much more convincing and exhaustive demonstration of the point I myself was making, namely that supply and demand are at the centre of this story. That inadequate supply is itself the result of politics you have, of course, shown magisterially, but this remains in conflict with Macfarlane’s explanation. The Scottish govt’s decision re. empty homes is, of course, a good one, but we have yet to see how fundamental the effects of such a policy will be. My own hunch is that whilst the super-rich do invest in property exclusively for its asset value, therefore leaving many properties empty, this cannot account for more than a tiny fraction of the housing shortage. If you have evidence of financialisation leading to a large-scale epidemic of uninhabited housing, I would of course be very happy to see it and recant accordingly. (That there is lots of derelict, empty housing in towns all over the UK that fail to attract new inhabitants because of a lack of economic opportunities is another story, even if its redeployment – alongside an appropriate industrial strategy to revive such places – is part of the solution.)

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By: Alasdair Macdonald https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1473 Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:44:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1473 Armchair Socialist,

In response to your second point: when Mrs Thatcher’s government introduced the right of tenants of council housing to buy their homes at fairly cheap prices, she initiated the rigging of the housing property market.

Selling council houses to tenants is defensible, provided that the price reflects the public investment in the building of the house (although a discount is reasonable to take into consideration the amount of rent paid).

The rigging of the market came in because Councils were not permitted to use the receipts to build more council housing. These new houses would have had two price effects – they would keep the supply of houses high and thereby curtail the huge property price inflation we have seen in the past 4 decades, and they would also keep the rents for private rentals at a reasonable level.

Some of the council houses which tenants bought were in areas which were not seen as ‘desirable’ and so, were difficult to resell. Many of the purchasers were also unable to afford the maintenance of the fabric. Within around two decades, many of such houses were in poor condition and a burden on the owners, who sold them cheaply to property speculators who demolished them, thus further reducing supply and forcing prices higher.

Finally, you express some scepticism about buying houses and keeping them empty. This does, indeed happen. There are many unoccupied houses in London and our cities, which are simply being kept off the market, to make the property market ‘buoyant’. There are many brownfield sites in our cities which could be used for house building which are simply left by the owners, many of them house building companies, who are not developing them and preventing potential self-builders from having access. This introduces an artificial land shortage and forces up land prices, thus further excluding self builders from participation. Undeveloped land is exempt from council and other taxes, so there is no running costs accruing to the speculators. Indeed, when such land suffers problems such as burst pipes which cause localised flooding, the public purse usually has to pick up the cost and is unable to recoup it because ownership is usually obscured via a web of shell companies, usually offshore.

The Scottish Government introduced a right for Councils to double Council tax on unoccupied ‘second homes’, as a way of forcing such houses back on to the market. It is also reestablishing the land register, which both Conservatives and Labour had allowed to fall into desuetude, so that beneficial owners can be identified. This is part of a wider policy of land reform.

Ambitious and redistributive land reform would go a long way in dealing with the power inequalities which the author has so clearly set out.

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By: armchair_socialist https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1472 Sat, 06 Oct 2018 12:00:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1472 I am sympathetic to large chunks of this well-written article, but also have some quibbles and genuine questions.
1. As a non-economist I have always wondered if calculations of wages’ purchasing power in different countries and at different times also factors in the question of whether certain goods are available on a universal, societal basis and, therefore, do not need to be paid for with wages. In other words, whilst – for argument’s sake – an American worker’s wages might be convertible into a greater number of market goods than those of a worker in a socialist country, would this calculation reflect the fact that the socialist worker does not need to pay for as many things (e.g. utilities, healthcare etc.)?
2. Secondly, whilst completely in agreement as to the fallacy of excluding political variables from understandings of wealth distribution, I do find this reverence for and redwashing of the German model a little suspect. For a start, property and rental prices. Your article makes no reference to the rather obvious question of supply and demand. Does Germany possess more housing stock per capita than the UK? A financialisation-based explanation of soaring house prices in the UK intuitively doesn’t really cut it. It’s not like vast numbers of people are buying houses as assets that they then keep empty. Sure, the future exchange value of the houses is a factor in determining why people invest in property, but the exchange value depends on the use value and the scarcity/abundance of this use value. It’s not really in dispute that the UK, or at least certain key regions of it, does face a genuine housing shortage, so these explanations that foreground mortgage deregulation, foreign speculation etc. can surely be no more than side-stories.
3. The elephant in the room whenever people talk about labour’s bargaining power in Germany is that German labour took a massive pay cut with the introduction of the euro in order to increase the competitiveness of German industry. Now, admittedly, this was a political, not a corporate measure (putting aside the question of corporate lobbying), so doesn’t speak directly to your argument about corporate governance. Even still, it would be nice to see it included in your analysis before you start turning Germany into some workers’ and tenants’ democracy.

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By: darkcity darkcity https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1471 Sat, 06 Oct 2018 06:11:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1471 Right, the capital has produced the income not the person. The statement “people in capitalist societies receive what they produce” is incomplete at best. People receive from what they own (ie. capital) as well as from what they produce.

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By: William MacDougall https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1470 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 19:47:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1470 They’re receiving income from capital, income that has been produced by that capital: no distortion.

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By: darkcity darkcity https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1469 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 19:42:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1469 People can receive income from what they own, this distorts the income received from production.

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By: Autumn Cote https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1468 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 08:12:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1468 Would it be OK if I converted a few of your comments on this thread into a stand-alone article for publication on my website?

There is no fee, I’m simply trying to add more content divewrsity for Writer Beat and liked what you wrote. I’ll be sure to give you complete credit as the author. You can learn more about the site by checking out my Disqus profile (my email and the website address are in the upper left hand corner) or just reply “sure” and I’ll handle the rest.

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By: William MacDougall https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1466 Wed, 03 Oct 2018 02:58:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1466 Your assumption that “productive capacity of the economy is unchanged” with different labour laws is highly debatable, as is your assumption that minimum wages and other labour market interventions benefit labour over all, not just one group of workers over other groups of workers. Your unsupported argument that speculation by foreign buyers is the main driver of high house prices in Britain is also doubtful; the main driver is the increase in demand from immigration and the restriction in supply from planning laws, amongst the tightest in Europe.

More generally I agree that measures of one country’s wealth relative to another are distorted by relative supply of goods by the state vs by the private sector, and other factors. But few are really concerned with that. Rather the argument is that people in capitalist societies receive what they produce, and that is generally true except where state power has distorted the market.

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By: Business Exploration https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1465 Tue, 02 Oct 2018 13:37:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1465 spaziale. I see very few times in my life an article with such a clarity. THANKS A LOT!

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By: John Picton https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1463 Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:36:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1463 This is really well written.

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By: Crissie Brown https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1461 Mon, 01 Oct 2018 12:16:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1461 I would add to this an analysis of how risk-of-ruin creates a near-gravitational wealth effect. A mathematical example:

Opportunity O costs 5 per attempt. O is risky, and only 1-in-5 attempts will be winners, but one winning attempt has a payout of 30. So with 100 attempts at O (total cost 500) you would expect ~20 winners (total payout ~600) for a net payout of ~100. On average, the expected value of O is ~1 per attempt …

… but only on average. You might easily fund 2 losers (total cost 10) before funding a winner. In fact, the probability of two-losers-before-a-winner is about 64% (0.8 first loser x 0.8 second loser) and the probability of three-losers-before-a-winner is 51.2% (0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8). So … more often than not … if you start funding O, you’ll pick at least three losers before you pick a winner.

Now, if you start with 500 … it’s extremely likely that you will profit by funding O, because your risk-of-ruin is very small.

But if you start with 15 … it’s more likely than not you’ll go bankrupt by funding O, because your risk-of-ruin is very large.

When free market ideologues say the current system “rewards risk-takers,” they mean the current system rewards people with enough wealth that their risk-of-ruin is very small. And that creates a near-gravitational wealth effect.

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By: Jeremy Fox https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1459 Mon, 01 Oct 2018 09:56:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1459 A model of clarity. Well done! The problem, of course, is essentially political. Will a Labour government have the balls to tackle the UK’s real estate distortions and deal – finally – with the City’s role as world money laundry ? The Tories certainly won’t.

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By: Zen9 https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1458 Mon, 01 Oct 2018 07:25:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1458 A very interesting piece!
Sadly this really needed confronting back in the 1990’s when house prices had already risen uncomfortably fast and the idea of productivity growth was traded got population growth.

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By: Ben Jamin' https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/distribution-wealth-little-productivity-everything-power/#comment-1457 Mon, 01 Oct 2018 00:19:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3444#comment-1457 This can all be dealt with on the harm done principle.

If those who suffer a loss of opportunity are not compensated by those that cause it, we bake in excessive inequalities and resource misallocation.

This is why we pay wages and for goods and services. We all argee now that slavery and theft are a bad idea.

Yet this logic is not extended to natural resources. As land is supplied for free by nature/God, when it becomes valuable, those excluded from its use suffer a loss of opportunity equal to its rental value. As we are all equally excluded, we should therefore be entitled to an equal share of the total rental value of all land.

As this does not current happen, there is a net transfer of incomes from those that own little/no land by value, relative to the taxes they currently pay, to those whom the opposite is true.

There the selling price of land is but a measure of economic injustice. If there was no net transfer, it’s selling price would be zero.

So not only does a typical working household have to pay much more to by a house, they need to do so from a reduced disposable income.

Furthermore, as the incomes of some in society are higher than they should be, this leads to over consumption and misallocation of housing.

The housing crisis is just one symptom of economic injustice. It along with many other issues can in principle be easily solved by the application of a 100% tax on the rental value of land.

It just needs enough people to stand up and say so.

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