Comments on: Why a Job Guarantee is a bad joke for the precariat – and for freedom https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3.4 By: srh1965 https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1436 Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:03:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1436 Well, not really. The linked video and article merely give further details of the typical JG scheme, and the article specifically tells us that most highly skilled/highly educated will continue in ‘wait unemployment’ for a suitable role to arrive.

I was asking about the opportunities for ex-offenders, and more specifically for the rapidly increasing number of people who have been convicted of a sexual offence which drastically limits their chances of any job at all. Many SOs are highly skilled/highly educated people who are forced to either spend many years unemployed, in occasional menial tasks or attempting some form of self-employment (the prospects for which are severely blighted by such a publicly-accessible label as “former SO”). The JG is touted as “jobs for all” when, truthfully, most employers – private or public – could not even be paid to take on anyone convicted of a sexual offence.

In my case, I have not worked since 2010 and I see no possibility of that changing. I have a friend in a similar position: formerly, he was a top professional classical musician, arranger and teacher; now he picks up occasional work in house painting. So this problem is related to the JG, but is more about societal attitudes to people within one highly-stigmatised category who would, in all likelihood, be the largest group to be excluded from any JG opportunities.

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By: Stephen Ferguson https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1434 Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:12:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1434 “any chance of an engineering job…under JG? I didn’t think so”

Well not as bad a chance as you might think. Firstly, as I said above, a proper JG should be tailored to the individual. Secondly a JG naturally boosts the ENTIRE economy (indeed this is its primary purpose). Since JG wage earners spend their money, which creates more demand for goods and services, which in turn boosts the income of the entire private sector. In meeting that demand, the private sector hires more staff, including many professional people such as yourself. Thus a JG is a very clever macroeconomic tool. See more here…

http://elliswinningham.net/index.php/2016/12/06/job-guarantee-understanding-fundamental-concepts/

…and nice short video here…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=187&v=eec9iFfmxbw

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By: srh1965 https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1414 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:09:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1414 There is a debate to be had about the myriad ways society excludes ex-offenders, and much more so the category of ex-offender I am slotted into – I’m treated as a category, not as a human being. But I’m more concerned with what you write about what kinds of jobs would be available under a putative JG scheme. They sound exactly like what Guy Standing’s article warns against: the kind of “community payback” activities that few would want to do once, never mind for months or years. It would be the usual thing with a lot of physical labour and no responsibility or need for brainpower or qualifications. The problem is the same as prison labour, in that it undercuts regular businesses. I’m a qualified, experienced school music teacher: any JG work there? I ran a sound recording studio: any chance of an engineering job in the BBC under JG? I didn’t think so. In prison, the only preparation for work was in the most menial of roles, such as cleaning, driving a fork-lift truck or some such. JG sounds like an extension of that, and it would become workfare – take this job or you get nothing.

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By: CorneliusFB https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1412 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:17:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1412 I agree but a wholesale dismissal of UBI or Citizens dividend is also unwarranted. Either way of dealing with chronic underemployment is preferable to the current neo liberal intentional underemployment and low wage agenda. Finding a way to support politicians who advocate either or both is a much more hopeful path.

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By: Stephen Ferguson https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1411 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:16:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1411 No not joking. This is serious. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/03/the-guardian-view-on-a-job-guarantee-a-policy-whose-time-has-come

The JG is tailored to the individual, so hopefully it would be far from awful, but something you would want to do. yes the work would be in sectors that the private sector sees no profit, but there’s more to life than profit and the bottom line is society will benifit from JG worker’s contribution. That fact alone – that people will see their locality being improved by JG workers – kills the resentment they might feel towards the scheme if recipients just got a check in the post for doing nothing. A critical problem with UBI.

I don’t know enough about the law, but feel surely its a big mistake excluding ex-offenders from society. This US article specificaly states it would be open to offenders… https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/02/federal-job-guarantee-universal-basic-income-investment-jobs-unemployment/

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By: srh1965 https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1408 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 18:54:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1408 I thought you were joking, then I thought you were serious. I’m still unsure. I’ve looked at the linked website. It’s unconvincing. As the article suggested, what appear to be offered are the kinds of jobs people don’t otherwise want to do. First, I don’t want to do them either. Second, I’d be barred from doing most of them under what is called in the UK “Safeguarding” rules, which are not to guard me, but to prevent people such as myself from taking part in almost the entirety of society.

Since my release from prison in 2017, apart from looking for paid work I’ve tried the following and been permanently excluded from them:
– a poetry reading group in my town library (vulnerable adults present, in the form of elderly people)
– a talking newspaper for the blind (they won’t take anyone who can’t provide references)
– becoming a member of the Green party (no former offenders wanted)
– taking adult education classes with the leftish Workers’ Education Association (no former offenders wanted)
– going to church (no former offenders of my specific kind wanted)

It would be lovely to think a JG might work, but it would not for the rapidly-increasing number of former offenders in my particular category, which you can easily work out. Also, it sounds far too much like forced labour for my liking. I’ve done the awful jobs. I prefer not working at all.

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By: Stephen Ferguson https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1407 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 15:44:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1407 “which employer would be forced to take me on”

The government. And with open arms. That’s because a JG, with emphasise on the word “Guarantee”, is open to anyone who wants one Thus it assures that NO ONE will be denied access to a job if they need it, just like no one can be denied a visit by the fire brigade in case of fire.

See faq here… https://www.pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq

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By: Wayne J McMillan https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1406 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 12:08:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1406 A JG is the only sensible, viable option for involuntary unemployment. The comments here indicate an absurd covert love of failed market mechanisms and an almost unwarranted, paranoid fear of inflation. Any government intervention in creating employment is dismissed as doomed to fail without a shred of empirical evidence. Please stop the specious criticisms and read the large and diverse research on the JG before taking potshots. Creating straw man arguments against a JG, is no way to win hearts and minds.

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By: CorneliusFB https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1405 Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:42:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1405 I see the debate between UBI and JG becoming the next frontier for the perpetually divided left, making more likely political and economic exclusion by the rentiers both claim to fight.

Why not test both ideas simultaneously by issuing fully funded per capita grant’s to state and local governments, letting them decide whether to use the funds for one, the other or both?

I would prefer that we eliminate payroll taxes and increase Social Security and Medicare benefits, making the latter universal and expanding the former by lowering the retirement age to 60. Combine this with a federally funded and locally administered job guarantee with a $15 wage and with federal incentives for local and state LVT to replace all other taxes and to fund a Ctizen’s Dividend.

Such a combination policies would probably lead to trully full employment and be the type of agenda that gives the left a real chance at political success rather than the usual implosion.

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By: srh1965 https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1404 Sat, 08 Sep 2018 06:40:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1404 An excellent analysis of the inherent failures of job guarantees. I’m long-term and permanently unemployed because of my criminal record and, thankfully, the Job Centre staff whom I have to visit once a fortnight put little pressure on me to put in much obviously-futile work to find a job. They know that no employer would have me on the premises: I couldn’t pay them to employ me. So, under a JG scheme, which employer would be forced to take me on if I insisted on my right to a job?

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By: Ralph Musgrave https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/job-guarantee-bad-joke-precariat-freedom/#comment-1403 Fri, 07 Sep 2018 16:57:00 +0000 https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/?p=3359#comment-1403 It’s good to see someone pouring cold water on JG. Certainly JG schemes normally end up as an expensive waste of time: that’s why so many get abandoned shortly after being set up. However, the above article isn’t perfect, and for the following reasons.

Re the above claim that JG workers would displace regular workers, that is BOUND to happen to some extent: it happens with most employment subsidies. So the important question is: exactly how much displacement is there? Displacement can be minimised by keeping JG jobs relatively short term: employers value PERMANENT skilled employees, not temporary low skilled employees. I explain that in more detail here:

http://kspjournals.org/index.php/JEPE/article/view/1237

Re the possible inflationary effects of JG, that depends on how generous the wage is: clearly if it’s too generous, the regular jobs market will be starved of job applicants, which would be inflationary.

Re “the fiscal cost could be daunting”, well that would certainly be the case with the latest Levy Institute JG proposal: that involves a wage DOUBLE the existing minimum wage. Barmy.

“People need time to search for jobs they are prepared to accept…” Actually the average unemployed person spends very little time per week job searching, thus a JG job (certainly a part time one) is perfectly compatible with job searching.

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